radionotes podcast episodes

Joe Hildebrand

by | May 7, 2023 | episodes | 0 comments

Joe Hildebrand

From Studio 10 many years ago, to now a regular on The Morning Show on 7 and sharing views on Sky News Joe Hildebrand (has also done time on the ABC and Triple M radio). As well, pens a regular column for The Daily Telegraph and was co-host of the I’m Usually More Professional Podcast.

While is Sydney for the Australian Podcast Awards John Murch was invited to Nine – the home of 2GB radio – to chat with Joe about music…

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IMAGE CREDIT: Supplied

Interview recorded November 2022 at 2GB (Nine Media) in New South Wales.

SHOW NOTES: Joe Hildebrand

A release from 29th November 2013….

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Theme/Music: Martin Kennedy and All India Radio   

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TRANSCRIPT

First version provided by REV team member – check to audio before quoting wider

John Murch:
Welcome to radionotes.

Joe Hildebrand:
So good to be with you, John. It’s an absolute pleasure.

John Murch:
On your drive show on the 14th of November, you said country is the best kind of music. Let’s start there.

Joe Hildebrand:
Yes. Well, there’s country and there’s country. But, yeah, no, my favourite … I find as I get older, I used to want to be a rock and roll star, and then I quickly became too old for that and now I realise I have no choice but to become a country music star.

John Murch:
Workshop that, what kind of country do you mean? As you said, you’re not 50 yet, so are you claiming the Keith Urban side or is there some of the-

Joe Hildebrand:
No, I’m not a fan of the big slick Nashville sound. I like the stripped back. I like The Chicks mostly, although I have to say my spiritual guru is probably Lyle Lovett, and he is obviously pretty slick at times, but I actually like his stripped back stuff. He’s fantastic. And I think in terms of Lucinda Williams, early Lucinda Williams, fantastic. In Australia, I just love Kasey Chambers. I adore her. She can do no wrong. She can bring a tear to a grown man’s eye.

John Murch:
Is it that broken vocal, that vulnerable vocal?

Joe Hildebrand:
The vocal fry. Yeah, I do like that a lot. I like raw vocals, but it’s also just the simplicity of it. They’re not trying to do too much. I often feel like there’s really just one song in the world, it’s just that people keep redoing it until they get it right. And that’s what I like about country, that you’re not after trying to be too clever or to complicate things or to do something that is too ostentatiously new. You’re just trying to get that sweet, sweet sound and that sweet resolve, just that right mix of A, D and E or right hammer-on or the right twang and the right place with the right line that just makes you go, “Oh.” An example, Kasey Chambers and Bernard Fanning doing Bittersweet, the most achingly beautiful song, and it’s pretty much just three chords and that’s all you need. And the verse is just a couple of chords.

John Murch:
As a broadcaster and a communicator through words, is it also that storytelling element that such artists you mentioned there can do?

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah, although I think that a good song can have good music and lyrics, but I don’t think a good song can have good lyrics and music. So I think the music has to come first. So I don’t think lyrics can carry a song, but certainly they can elevate it. But the whole point of a song is that the music makes the words do something more. So, again, you can have a song as simple as da, doo, run, run and it’s unreal, notwithstanding the fact that it was written by a murdering psychopath. And you can have … I mean, we all love Bob Dylan, but you can have a Bob Dylan song that goes on and on and on and speaks all sorts of, I suppose, profundities or whatever, and you just want to kill yourself by the end of it because it’s just so, so boring. All those endless minor chords, although, of course, his best stuff is better than anything.

John Murch:
Let’s talk about the live music aspect. Have you found yourself in the live music situation of this country music and then we’ll broaden it out to other music in a moment?

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah. What did I do? Yeah, I used to go and hang out at the pubs around Fitzroy in the ’90s, in the mid and late ’90s, and that was my scene. I was a little indie boy, little indie rocker. And so I used to go and see all sorts of … It wasn’t so much country back in those days, it was mostly just indie rock.

John Murch:
Let’s take-

Joe Hildebrand:
I was a Lucksmith’s groupie.

John Murch:
I was about to say.

Joe Hildebrand:
Have you ever heard of them?

John Murch:
Well, let’s take you back to Fitzroy. And, yes, I had heard of the Lucksmith. I was one of the few people in Adelaide who played them. Talk to us about Lucksmith and what it was about connection with you.

Joe Hildebrand:
Well, the songwriter was my cousin’s boyfriend at the time, so there was that. But, no, I really loved them, though. Again, it was just I like my music simple before country and indeed during. Heavily into the blues as well. I think music needs to be simple. Music needs to be visceral. Well, I don’t think anyone would accuse the Lucksmiths of being particularly visceral, but they do. Again, they have really, really simple songs most of the time or songs that sound deceptively simple, even if occasionally they’ve got some other stuff going on. The lyrics are extremely good. But, again, the songs where they go on wild lyrical flights without the big heavy musicality I don’t go for, but there are some that just have really powerful, and because they did so much to say little, there’s just three of them. There’s just a guitar, bass, and a snare drum.
And so they came up with quite creative ways to create different sounds. Occasionally, they’d bring in a session muso for one thing or another, but I like that. I like the fact that they managed to do more with less and that they don’t shy away from … I hate songs that are complex or musical for the sake of it. Got to sound good. And if that means using the same three chords that have been on God’s green earth since he invented the sixth string, then so be it.

John Murch:
You’ve had a very illustrious student politics start and I mentioned that because it’s possible. I know if you were at Adelaide Uni, you would’ve definitely had a uni bar that you were attached to a Flinders, you would’ve had a uni bar.

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah, yeah.

John Murch:
Talk to us about that experience of music in that uni bar scenario.

Joe Hildebrand:
We certainly did. Yeah, we had … So, yeah, I did student politics and a bit of student theatre as well and did the student paper, obviously. And it was all just rolled together. So we’d have fundraisers for this and that and The Lucksmiths would always be there or whoever it was we could haul in. So Union House at Melbourne Uni, there was always, always music. There was a thriving scene. The live music scene in Melbourne at the time was sensation on. So within a couple of kilometre radius of uni, particularly as you went down to Carlton and Fitzroy, Collingwood, almost every second pub would’ve had a music every other night. It was awesome. It was fantastic. So it was, yeah, absolutely shockers.

John Murch:
We were quite aware because all these Adelaide bands disappeared. So The Reckoning undecided, of course, Andrew P Street and The Reckoning Seamus ended up in Melbourne for a while.

Joe Hildebrand:
Yes. And, of course, The Bedridden. I don’t know if you claim them as Adelaide or not.

John Murch:
Yes, we do.

Joe Hildebrand:
But good, excellent. I always did. I actually travelled … I spent 12 hours on The Overland train from Melbourne to Adelaide just to go there for one night so I could see The Bedridden at a reunion gig, which I thought would be my only chance in a lifetime to actually hear them live because, of course, they’d broken up when I first heard of them. I can’t remember exactly where it was. All I remember is it was about a 50-degree Celsius day and the place looked like it was in the middle of the desert. It looked like at the Mad Max scene. And then I got the train back the next day. So I spent about 24 hours on the train just so I could spend 24 hours in Adelaide to see The Bedridden.
And one of the first things I saw when I got off was that The Bedridden having another reunion gig in Melbourne. And then I found out that they had reunion gigs pretty much every single month and probably played more in reunions than they did when they were actually officially a band. But anyway, that was one of the best 48 hours of my life.

John Murch:
So you would’ve had Baterz in your orbit?

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah, I had Baterz in orbit and Kirsty Stegwazi used to play a lot at Empress as I recall in North Fitzroy. And she was great. And, of course, Benjow, the big brooding cool one. They were probably one degree of separation from my usual groupie mate, so I didn’t necessarily know them. I spoke to Kirsty a couple of times, but I didn’t necessarily know them, but I knew people who knew them. And that, to me, was like the height of fame. They were the coolest. I loved them. They were my favourite Australian band probably ever. I actually tracked down their first couple of albums.

John Murch:
Yeah.

Joe Hildebrand:
It’s All Fun And Games Until Someone Loses An Eye and Big Scary Cow. And they are as good today. It’s actually very hard to track them. You actually have to write to the one remaining member of The Bedridden who’s still got his shit together and he’s got these copies and he actually cut, I think, a couple of fresh CDs for me and sent them through.

John Murch:
Well, that’s good. Both-

Joe Hildebrand:
It was legendary. They are the best. And that’s why I’ve always said that Adelaide is the greatest city in Australia. It’s like Melbourne before it got too cool. But, yeah, so The Bedridden, absolutely awesome. So they’re the Australian Beatles, except more hardcore and cool.

John Murch:
Has there been a … By seeing such, not grassroots, but such organic, as you say yourself, direct music that you do, has that encouraged you to pick up an instrument over the years?

Joe Hildebrand:
Well, I already had picked up an instrument. I’m already a failed musician. So I didn’t need to … Yeah. So, unfortunately, when I was at uni, I spent more time playing the bong than I did playing the guitar. I’ve just got easily distracted. But, no, I’m playing piano since I was a very young boy and a bit of guitar. I’m not great at guitar, but I used to be an all right piano player and I still belt out a few tunes here and there.

John Murch:
I saw some footage of I think when the newborn had just been announced, there was a piano in the background.

Joe Hildebrand:
One of my best friends, who’s also a muso in Sydney, and my beloved wife actually for my 40th birthday got … And they managed to do it all behind my back, believe it or not. They distracted me and got me out of the house and then smuggled the piano in while I was out. But they got me a secondhand Bechstein, I think it was, upright piano, which I think is the same one that Bob Dylan used to bash away at before he realised that guitars were more portable. So, yeah, I love that little piano. So I still belt away on that every now again.

John Murch:
So it’s more of a rock and roll than a classical-

Joe Hildebrand:
I used to. And, obviously, we’re all still in mourning for the passing of the great Jerry Lee Lewis. I used to do that sort of stuff. But nowadays, it’s much more blues, sort of rolling blues and country. Try to master the hammer-on on keyboard.

John Murch:
I want to get a little personal with you. What song reminds you of Tara?

Joe Hildebrand:
Oh, well, the risk of sounding like an utter wanker. It would be one of many that I’ve written about her. So I have for my sins written many songs and I’ve written a few for her. I’m not sure how you would necessarily describe them. They’re a bit country, bit country bluesy.

John Murch:
Are they an autobiography of the life you have together honing into the experiences you’ve had with her?

Joe Hildebrand:
They’re all … Oh, yeah. Yeah. And they all have to express great sadness and dissatisfaction. I think happy songs never … If you’re really happy and you want to tell everyone about it, just f*** off who cares? And that’s another reason I love country. Good country songs are all sad. They’re all lamentations. All good country songs are howlingly, hauntingly sad. And even if they’re about something happy, then you have to find a way to make them sad.
All the songs I’ve written about all my past loves, including my beautiful current wife, would almost entirely be songs of dissatisfaction and outrage and how dare you do this to me or how dare you run away from me and how dare you leave me in a puddle of tears on the floor. I think I wrote a song called Please Don’t Leave Me at the Airport. That was a good one. That was about an ex who left me at the airport. And I also wrote another country song called Overland about the train from Melbourne to Adelaide.

John Murch:
And was it around that Bedridden trip?

Joe Hildebrand:
It was. I think I wrote it as soon as I got back. But, of course, it wasn’t about how happy I was to go to see The Bedridden. It was about what a woman who left me on The Overland train. They all leave me, John. They all leave me, except for one.

John Murch:
I was about to say, you got a ring on.

Joe Hildebrand:
All relationships end badly, except for one if you’re lucky.

John Murch:
Would you imagine releasing these tunes?

Joe Hildebrand:
I don’t think so. I don’t really see how I could now. I think if you’re going to be a-

John Murch:
Pseudonym?

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah, maybe. I think if you’re going to be a muso, you have to be just that. And I’ve done so much other stuff that I think it would be almost impossible to separate, and for any audience, if there was one, to separate the songs from everything else. And so if Anthony Albanese released an album, Peter Garrett did the opposite and went in the other direction. It almost ends up sullying both. You know what I mean? I think you have to be one thing or the other. And my dad was a musician and I’m probably glad that I didn’t end up doing that because as much as I’m sad that all my brilliant masterpieces probably won’t see the light of day, I don’t think I’d be anywhere near as good a person or a father as I am now if I had been a musician. I think musicians tend to …

John Murch:
But what kind of musician was Gary?

Joe Hildebrand:
My dad, it was Greg. Very close.

John Murch:
Sorry.

Joe Hildebrand:
No, that’s all right. Folk musician mostly, but he also played country and blues, but he was just self-accompanied guitarist for the most part. And he just played little coffee houses and little gigs. So he was a very good singer, good interpreter of songs, very good guitar player, but didn’t write very much.

John Murch:
As a broadcaster, you now get to interview musicians.

Joe Hildebrand:
Yes.

John Murch:
Maybe not as many as you may like even. But what’s been one of your most memorable … And you may want to go back to Studio 10 for this as well, I’m thinking. What’s been one of the most memorable musician interactions you’ve had, interview or otherwise?

Joe Hildebrand:
I worked in the UK for … I did a sort of exchange programme sort of thing, a secondment for the UK Press Association and was working there. And I just remember being absolutely staggered by the fact that there was just a contact number for Paul McCartney in their contact. It’s like, “Oh, yeah, Macca. This is his manager and you just give him a call if you want a quote.” I’m like, “Oh…” like everyone else in the world, just a Beatles tragic. These people were gods to me. So I just marvelled at that years, years, years later I was on Studio 10 and we actually had an interview with Ringo Starr. By that stage, was 50% of the surviving Beatles. And while obviously Ringo Starr wasn’t exactly the songwriting powerhouse by the Beatles, I really enjoyed that, just the fact that I’d just spoken to a Beatle. I think I was so nervous that I ended up just gibbering on and poor bloke probably barely got a word in, but that was amazing just to be able to say, “I spoke to a Beatle,” that blew my mind.
Kasey Chambers came on the show and I just adore her. I love her. I think she’s probably the best songwriter in Australia or something like that. She’s certainly … Whether or not she’s the best, I can’t think of anyone better. You can tell the music is just very honest and true. Again, she’s just got a beautiful ear. She’s just got a really nice ear. I went in her live. She’s just amazing. She’s amazing the way her and her family and pretty much anyone she sings with, the way she’s able to blend her voice with theirs. I love my tight harmonies. And she’s just great. She’s terrific. She’s a great interpreter of songs and a great and a brilliant songwriter.

John Murch:
How does that music, may it be country or otherwise, how does the music move you? What does it do for Joe?

Joe Hildebrand:
I think in many ways, maybe like a good book, but I think, again, music is where God lies. Music is where … Music is the thing, I think, that makes us human. It’s like the divine spark in all of us. If you listen to something like side two of Abbey Road or Lyle Lovett and Emmylou Harris in Walk Through the Bottomland, or Kasey Chambers do the Nullabor song or some of The Bedridden’s slower stripped back song that just achingly beautiful. And, of course, always sad, always tortured, that’s very important. But I think it makes you feel less alone. I think a song … And I think is why the sadness is important … When you’re happy, you don’t really need anyone else. You don’t really need any affirmation or any help. You don’t need a crutch, you don’t. A good aching love song reassures you you’re not alone, that you’re not the first person … As Michael Stipe said, everybody hurts. It makes you feel like part of something, part of a bigger human experience, instead of just some poor sod who’s wretched and alone and grieving or sad.
I reckon that probably saves lives, to be honest. I reckon that probably stops people from topping themselves or helps people get back on their feet or helps them move on. And I think that’s amazing. And there’s not much else that can do that. I don’t know if you can get that from looking at a painting.

John Murch:
No, I think the only other thing is live radio for which you do-

Joe Hildebrand:
Live radio. That’s right. The only other way you can experience that is by listening to it. Drive on 2GB.

John Murch:
Well, no, I say that, though, because if you look at the work that Ben (Fordham) does here in the mornings now, it’s about that connection stuff.

Joe Hildebrand:
Yes. Yes, that’s right.

John Murch:
And he’s very much … And I think you are-

Joe Hildebrand:
So it’s the 5:30 club. He literally created a club. Yes.

John Murch:
Just having that connection for those that are up and about.

Joe Hildebrand:
Well, that’s why radio is so just utterly magnificent because it is the only medium where you can just talk to someone directly. You’re not just talking at them. They’re not just sitting there listening to you and copying whatever you say sweet, whether they like it or not. You can actually have a conversation with a member of your audience, and that is the show. So the audience becomes the show. The audience is part of the show. And there’s not really … Not counting when a magician calls up someone from the crowd and saws them in half, but there’s no other form of media like it, which is why it’s so incredibly intimate and exciting. And, again, it fit … So when I’m wandering around in the real world or whatever, people would just strike up a conversation with you as though they’ve known you your whole life. And I love that.

John Murch:
And it’s also the fact, and this is something you’ve learned, and I appreciate that you’ve learned this, is that there is a listener.

Joe Hildebrand:
Yes, that’s right.

John Murch:
There may be many listener.

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah.

John Murch:
But there is a listener.

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah, that’s right. Well, no one’s … I mean, you don’t listen to the radio with 999,000 other people next to you. You’re there by yourself in your car or in the morning, you’re lying in bed. It is really … And I found that also with morning television, they’re listening to it or watching it when they’re in bed, when they’re in the kitchen, when they’re home alone during the day or perhaps they’ve been doing something else, but doing things that it’s not just a show that someone puts on and they sit back and watch, that it’s something that feels very much part of their lives.

John Murch:
And that’s I think what (Rob) McKnight was able to do is he was able to give each one of you your individual voice for whatever that listener is, to go, “Oh, that’s my mate, Joe.”

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Murch:
Oh, hang on, an Ange (Angela Bishop) is saying something. But it wasn’t just two talking heads.

Joe Hildebrand:
Well, I think we … I mean, on that show, we were a group of friends and we all genuinely loved each other. And I think that comes through. So we were like a family that would have squabbles and fights, but ultimately all love each other, even though we’re all quite different and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That rippled out to the audience as well. We’d also have audience members who were very, very loyal and invested in the show, people who would come in live, and we knew them all, we’d see them all. Went to the funeral of one of them, which I suppose is how you know –

John Murch:
And you would do that for radio as well.

Joe Hildebrand:
Hopefully not the industry. Yeah, that’s right. No, of course, you would. I’ve never bought this idea that there’s a public face of you or someone or anyone that puts on a little song and dance routine for the stupid listener who just wants to be entertained. And then at five-O’Clock, you put in your punch cards and you go home and they’re dead to you until the next time you’re on. I just never really bought that. So I think you are who you are and you’ve got your job and, frankly, you need the listeners much more than they need you. You can say what you like. I’m not paying their wages. They’re paying mine. They’re the punters, they’re the voters. They’re your bosses.

John Murch:
I want to quickly take you back to Studio 10 just for one more question. I’m just tearing up because the day that you left Sarah Harris on air nearly gutted me because that is the kind of friendship we’re talking about.

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Murch:
And so my question is this, Joe, what kind of concerts or music experiences do or did Sarah and you share that you can mention publicly?

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah, no, let me have a thing. I think Sarah would love nothing more than to drag me along to a Snoop Dogg concert. And we’re often taking the kids to … So the last thing, we both took our kids to see Cinderella, the musical. I’m not sure if that-

John Murch:
Oh, sorry, I automatically went Cinderella cut it up one more time.

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s that as well.

John Murch:
Yep.

Joe Hildebrand:
And we’ve been to a couple of Wiggles concerts together because everything we do involves the kids. But, yeah, Sarah and I are still incredibly close and we talk all the time and see each other all the time. I absolutely love The Wiggles and, again, their musicianship is second to none. It is extraordinary. And that’s why they’re so successful. They’re so successful because they take what are ostensibly or rather write what are ostensibly good songs and they treat them seriously. They arrange them really incredibly well. They have beautiful arrangements, beautiful harmonies, beautiful instrumentation. The Red Wiggle singing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star is a work of art. The album I did with the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra is high art. It is amazing. The Melbourne Symphony Orchestra arrangement of Do the Propeller, it’s as good as any song out there.

John Murch:
And it brings us back to, I think, it was a rap artist as well who challenged them. And they’re like, “Yeah, sure. Okay.”

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah.

John Murch:
All Day or one of those kind of youthful rappers?

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that’s right. I mean, Holly Throsby did a similar thing where she did … I liked her stuff before she did the kids’ album, but friends of mine would just put on and me put on Holly Throsby long after the kids had gone to bed and just put on her kids’ album because the music is just sensational. And good music is good music no matter who it’s for or who’s listening

John Murch:
Award-winning author now, the follow-up to –

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, she’s-

John Murch:
Cedar Valley’s out now, obviously. And she did the –

Joe Hildebrand:
That’s right. She violates my rule that you have to be one thing or another. Although I haven’t … Perhaps not for me, maybe that’s why I haven’t read any of her books because I have to keep her unsullied as a musician.

John Murch:
You mentioned on one of the last … I’m usually more professionals with … Sorry, I don’t write this now. I want to say A.H. Cayley.

Joe Hildebrand:
A.H. Cayley.

John Murch:
And former senator, Sam Dastyari. You were sharing remix of former mayor Rudy Giuliani had been remixed.

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah, yeah.

John Murch:
And you got a little uncomfortable that music had become political. So …

Joe Hildebrand:
Yes.

John Murch:
… sincerely, how do you feel when music gets political?

Joe Hildebrand:
Politics has always been a part of music and music’s always been a part of politics. But I tend not to … I love my Woody Guthrie, for example, and he was nothing, if not political. But again, I suppose it just has to be that the song is the thing. I’m not going to like a song or sing a song or listen to a song just because I agree with whatever political message it has. And I think often if you set out to make a song self-consciously political and to deliver a political message, the music gets sacrificed or the musicality can get sacrificed. That’s not always true, but I think it’s often true. Bob Dylan is great, but my favourite Bob Dylan songs are his love songs, not his political songs. Bob Dylan’s Visions of Johanna is a infinitely better song than Blowin’ In The Wind. Bob Dylan’s Just Like a Woman is an infinitely better song than the The Times They Are A-Changin’.

John Murch:
So I guess what I’m asking is, when you’re listening to music, there’s not an aversion to hearing anything political in the lyric, but for you, it’s just not where your head’s at when you’re listening to music.

Joe Hildebrand:
I think when you listen to a song, I suppose if I want to make … Firstly, I would probably say if I’ve got something political that I want to say, I want to say it, not listen to it and not listen to it being put to music or being told, not going to form my opinion on whether Rubin Carter is guilty or innocent based on Hurricane, listening to a song about it. You would form an argument and you would make a case. And if you cared enough about something, you’d advocate for it rather than just sitting around in joyous agreement with whoever. I’ve never found that particularly useful. And, yeah, I think you listen to a song because it’s a good song because you like it and you like the way it makes you feel. And I think in most cases … And, again, many political songs do this as well, but I think it’s because you feel like there is an affinity between you and the person singing it. And that, I think, probably gives you an affinity with humanity more broadly, that you feel like, yes, we’ve all been here before, we’ve all been through this. And that’s why all songs, ultimately, probably one way or another, are love songs. All songs are essentially about that yearning to be with someone, to find someone that you’ve got a connection with and to not feel alone.

John Murch:
Guess I’m also trying to figure out whether or not you see a place for music to be part of a movement of any sort.

Joe Hildebrand:
People can use music as much as they want for things and music can make people feel good. Music can make people … If you’re at a rally or whatever, music might get a bit of energy going. But it’s … I mean, I don’t know. I mean, you look at, say, controversy over Trump. I think Trump used You Can’t Always Get What You Want by the Rolling Stones until they said, “No, we don’t want you to play it.” And so what does that mean? Does it mean you’re going to like Trump just because you like the song? Or does it mean that if they don’t play the song anymore, you’re not going to like Trump anymore? Is he going to lose people at his rallies because he doesn’t play the song or gain them because he does?
The other thing is when you listen to a song, if you don’t agree with this singer’s politics, does it actually change the song for you? And, to me, I don’t think it does. So I just saw that Kanye West is now back on Twitter, having said some pretty batch crazy things, well, about some of my friends in the Jewish community, quite frankly, but does that make his song gone any less awesome? In my view, no. The song is the thing, the art is the thing, it stands alone. I’m a big fan of musical plagiarism as well because that, I think, is a way … Sooner or later, when you get right down to it, there are only 12 notes in a scale. And basically, only three chords that sound really good together. And so Twist and Shout is the same as La Bamba, has the same chord progression as Wild Thing, has the same chord progression as Louie, Louie. All these songs are essentially the same. If everyone got lawyered up and went after each other, we wouldn’t have rock and roll.

John Murch:
What’s your favourite musical?

Joe Hildebrand:
I think probably in terms of the old school ones, I actually played Curly Mclain in the Dandenong High School production of Oklahoma, just so you know. That was a big year, ’93.

John Murch:
Just writing that down, yeah.

Joe Hildebrand:
Just writing that. I was in year 12.

John Murch:
Yeah.

Joe Hildebrand:
You had to wait a long time to get the lead role. They didn’t give it to just anybody. I really like 42nd Street just because I went and saw 42nd Street in Melbourne. And the Lullaby of Broadway, the version of Lullaby of Broadway that that production did was just the best version of the song and just the most perfect version of the song. And I’ve been trying to find it or something like it ever since and I still haven’t. I spent a lot of my time trying to find the perfect version of songs. And that one just stands out to me. I was actually looking for it just yesterday and I found the Tony Bennett one. And even the Tony Bennett one wasn’t as good. I love Big River.

John Murch:
Right.

Joe Hildebrand:
Is a good one in terms of the more modern ones. Obviously, Jesus Christ Superstar is fantastic. And My Fair Lady, obviously, in next level.

John Murch:
I think you’re a romantic, even if you don’t think you are.

Joe Hildebrand:
We’re all romantics. We’re all romantics.

John Murch:
Right. What was the wedding song if you’re allowed to share?

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah, the wedding song was Something by the Beatles. But what was very, very funny was that we had … One of those situations where you just had one job, just one job. All we needed was just one bloke. One of my friends just had to be competent enough to just hit the play button. And the first friend we had to do it was my mate, Goz, who I just loved to death, but he’s basically half deaf. So he basically can’t hear in one ear, but he was going to do it nonetheless. And one of my really close friends, he was actually going to be a groomsman for a while because my other groomsman was late, but then the other groomsman rocked up and then I said, “Well, look, can you just press play?” And he said, “Yeah.” And then someone else said, “Look, guys, he’s half deaf. He can’t hear, you can’t have him press play.”
I said, “All right,” because I had to get my brother-in-law to do it instead, my sister’s husband. And he’s like, “Yeah, God.” And he’s like an engineer. He’s a super smart guy. He knows how to do all this stuff. Said, “All right, you just got to press play.” And he got so nervous. He was so keen to do a banged up job that literally standing at the altar and Tara’s walking down the aisle. And I’m like looking at him just going, “Press play, press play.” He’s just frozen. He’s just looking back at me and smiling and nodding. And I’m like, “yeah, yep press play.” And it’s like time just stood still, except it didn’t stand still. It actually passed in silence. And then eventually, which she’s about halfway down the aisle, he hit play. Funny.

John Murch:
To bring it back to radio, you must really respect Kane and the work that the panel operators of Australia do.

Joe Hildebrand:
Oh, he is amazing. I don’t know how they do it.

John Murch:
It’s just like a wink of the eye and it’s just like it’s there.

Joe Hildebrand:
It’s ingenious. And, again, I was just so … I remember when I first got into radio being terrified that I would actually have to do it. And I think I’ve never felt so much relief when someone said, “No, no, no, that’s all right.”

John Murch:
Of course, as you would’ve learned from FM radio, if you do end up panelling, you end up doing the weekend shift.

Joe Hildebrand:
That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. You’re always … It’s very important. You’d never make yourself too useful. Like being a husband where you have to feign incompetence, you have to cultivate incompetence so you’re not asked to do things. Oh, honey, I don’t know how to stack the dishwasher. Oh, but darling, I can’t cook as well as you can.

John Murch:
What’s in your physical collection of music?

Joe Hildebrand:
Oh, that’s a very good question.

John Murch:
So maybe give us a picture. Is it records? Is it CD?

Joe Hildebrand:
I’ve got a couple of crates full of records somewhere at my best mate’s house in Melbourne that they’ve basically looked after for me ever since I went to Sydney. It’s got the entire Beatles collection. It’s got a collection called, I think, the American Songbook, which is all old folk and blues and country songs recorded on the back of a truck throughout mostly the American South. It’s got the best Buddy Holly, a double album, which has got everything you need from the great man. It’s got a bit of Linda Ronstadt. Love a bit of Linda Ronstadt.

John Murch:
You’d cut up a pretty mean dance floor?

Joe Hildebrand:
I think I can after several beers.

John Murch:
A few.

Joe Hildebrand:
But it’s probably not a good idea. I did go through a rave period. So that was where …

John Murch:
Can you talk to us about that?

Joe Hildebrand:
… I did the Melbourne shuffle. I did the Melbourne shuffle. Yeah, I was a pretty big wheel in the nightclubs of Northcote back in the day.

John Murch:
Where do you think music is heading?

Joe Hildebrand:
I’m not sure because I think it can’t really … There’s only so far music can go before it becomes unlistenable. And I think classical music has already gone there, to be honest. So I think “classical” music, orchestrated music is so experimental in avant-garde that it’s unlistenable. I think with modern music, all the energy seems to be around like rap and hip hop and black music, which is good because that’s, of course, where rock and roll started in the first place. So there’s a nice sense that it’s coming full circle, but it’s also becoming much more of a pastiche. So, again, it’s about sampling, it’s about collaboration. Justin Bieber’s songs that are just absolutely amazing because he’s doing collabs with people who add a completely new element to what he normally does and previous done. And I think some people have actually said he may have actually given birth to this new style of music because every song is a sort of collaboration. I mentioned before Kanye West doing Gone, for example. That is one of the best songs anyone has ever put together. And, of course, it’s a result of sampling and collaboration. And-

John Murch:
And can you now continue to listen to that based on what we said before?

Joe Hildebrand:
Oh, yeah. God, yeah, it’s fantastic. I listened to it just the other day. Yeah, it’s brilliant. I mean, honestly, if you didn’t listen to any music just because the songwriter or the performer said something that crazy, you wouldn’t be listening to anything. I mean, it’s just a matter of the threshold. So I won’t be buying any Rolf Harris albums again because it’s just impossible not to think of it. But, again, there are still people who will listen to Michael Jackson, for example, and that’s a live debate. My oldest kid went through a phase where he absolutely loved Michael Jackson and the songs just gave him … He just loved it and he thought it was fantastic, and they’re really good songs, obviously.
So am I going to then say, “No, you can’t listen to that because Michael Jackson was accused of being a paedophile?” Why destroy his joy in something. That drove home that idea that, look, this song is the thing. You’ve got a kid here, no idea who Michael Jackson is, but just loves this song. It makes him really happy. Why should I corrupt or contaminate his joy by imposing some ideological restrictions on what he can and can’t listen to? So that brought it home for me, but again, it’s impossible, too, for us to listen or see it without knowing in the back of our minds that that’s there.

John Murch:
Variety TV. You’ve done some brilliant stuff. I adore Robbo (David Robinson).

Joe Hildebrand:
Yes.

John Murch:
My question does come to music on this. Does music play a part in that genre of television?

Joe Hildebrand:
Oh, hell, yeah. I mean, there’s a reason why so many actors are singers and singers are actors and people on TV used to all be the one thing like if you go back to something like music hall or whatever, it was all part of the same event. It was all part … And, again, if you go to a musical, the musicians, the singers, the actors, the dancers are all part of the same show. And there will be people who do all three or four things. And a variety show is basically just vaudeville or musical with a camera in front of it. So, yes, it’s a very integral part of it. I mean, watch any TV show these days, variety or not, and then just imagine it without music. Turn the volume down. Imagine watching a TV show without an opening theme song. Imagine watching Master Chef without Katy Perry singing you’re hot and you’re cold. I don’t think it would be the same show.

John Murch:
In terms of TV themes, Meg Washington, a big fan of Fisk, which is on the ABC, Marty Sheargold and Julia Zemiro’s show has just a lick of it, but it just brings you shows here, sit down time to be with that today.

Joe Hildebrand:
Yeah. And people … So I mentioned I was in the UK. That was the year that The Office was at its peak. And I was there when, I think, the second series was just starting, so people knew what it was. And they’d been waiting for the second series. This is before streaming and the early 2000s. And there were people who would write pieces in … It was amazing. I’d be with someone and they’d look at the time and they’d leave their drinks, they’d flee the pub, get back home because they had to be there to hear the first opening bars of Handbags and Gladrags because without that song at the beginning of the show, it wasn’t The Office. And without hearing it at the very beginning. And people would write newspaper articles about this and say when they heard that clarinet bit or whatever it was at the beginning of the song, suddenly everything changed for them. They went into a different space and they got this rush because they knew good stuff was on the way.

John Murch:
At seven minutes past three this afternoon, there will be a sting, a lick of tune, to bring people into your drive show here on 2GB. Joe Hildebrand, thank you very much for taking the time to speak with radionotes.

Joe Hildebrand:
Thank you so much, John. It’s been an absolute pleasure.

AI generated summary REV produced: Radio host Joe Hildebrand discusses his love for country music and his preference for stripped-back, raw vocals. He mentions his favorite country artists, including Lyle Lovett, Lucinda Williams, and Kasey Chambers. Hildebrand also talks about the power of music to evoke emotions and create a sense of connection. He shares personal anecdotes about his experiences with live music and his own failed attempts at being a musician. Hildebrand also discusses the role of music in politics and his belief that the song itself is more important than the artist’s political views. He touches on his favorite musicals and the importance of music in variety TV shows. Overall, Hildebrand emphasizes the emotional and transformative power of music.

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