radionotes podcast episodes

Charm of Finches are a duo of sisters that swirl in the realm of dream folk. Your Company is their sophomore album that as you’ll hear in this chat a very personal record of emotions.

Before taking the stage at The Wheatsheaf Hotel (Thebarton, South Australia) to showcase songs from the record, Ivy and Mabel spoke to radionotes

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IMAGE CREDIT: Emma McEvoy

SHOW NOTES: Charm Of Finches

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Feature Guest: Charm Of Finches

Next Episode: Janie Conway Herron

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CREDITS

Theme/Music: Martin Kennedy and All India Radio   

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Voice: Tammy Weller  

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TRANSCRIPT

First version provided by REV team member Anya P – check to audio before quoting wider

John Murch:
Ladies, welcome to, radionotes.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Thanks for having us.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Thank you.

John Murch:
What was the kernel of the idea for two sisters like yourself to combine, to make a musical venture like, Charm of Finches?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Well, I think Ivy and I have just naturally gone into music because we’ve had quite a musical childhood, a lot of folk music around us with our mom doing choirs and our dad loving Bob Dylan and playing that in the background of our childhood, and also going to Steiner School, in which we sang from a very young age in class. I think in grade one, we both started singing in class and then we eventually started singing together. And our first band, I guess, was with a friend of ours and we did three-part harmony songs from the Appalachian Mountains, a lot of songs from, Oh Brother Where Art Thou, that soundtrack, if you know of that.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
That’s where we started singing and performing first. But then when I was 12, I picked up the guitar, taught myself, wrote my first song. And then Ivy had developed quite a skill for harmonies and put harmonies to my songs. And I just started writing heaps. It was an obsession after that first song, I just wrote heaps of songs and Ivy put harmonies, and that’s where it began.

John Murch:
You mentioned Steiner music. A lot of our guests that I’ve had have done Steiner and I believe that you need to choose an instrument. What instrument did you choose?

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
I chose the violin and Mabel chose the cello in year three.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Yeah. We also played recorder from year one through six.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
And sang a lot of folk songs in class, played in orchestras. And so yeah, we still play violin and cello and they are on the album a lot.

John Murch:
Which of those instruments were you enjoying playing at year one, two and three?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Ivy actually picked up the violin earlier than was-

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Yeah. I picked it up in year two, and I think-

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Because she was so keen.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Yeah, it’s pretty exciting, I think. It’s quite a hard instrument to play, so I feel like it’s hard to feel good about your playing early on-

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
That’s true.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Because it takes a lot of practice to actually make a nice sound. So yeah.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
There’s definitely that stage of having parents on your back, going, “You need a practice every day,” but once you get past that certain difficult stage and you have all the basics underway, it’s quite enjoyable after that. And then you can get a bit more experimental and focus on making it a beautiful sound.

John Murch:
What was it that was inspiring you through the conversations, encouragements from the parents in those earlier years?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
I think it was a natural thing. And I think Ivy and I have sung with our mum for quite a long time, since we were young, we still sometimes get her up on stage and sing a three-part harmony song with her. Oh, that’s right. She had a choir when we were in primary school and they used to sing in the playground while we were all playing. I think harmony singing was around us from very young, just having that in the background, I think, was enough to get us interested in harmony singing.

John Murch:
There’s also the sibling factor, that we’ve had siblings before, like Angus and Julia Stone, Rufus and Martha, The Acfields, they’re a sibling duo as well. Do you think being that sibling duos made some difference?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Our harmony is really glued together, and it’s sometimes sounds like it’s one voice, which I think is true and maybe something about growing up together and being in each other’s lives as a lot, I guess, is we can mesh quite well, communicate on stage quite well without, I guess, verbally saying anything or like, would you agree?

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Yes.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
As a band, we’re doing it all together. We’re making this project together, and we have to be in sync with each other. And I think it helps a lot when it’s someone that you’re in a family with, because I guess with family, it’s okay to have little fights and stuff. Whereas with friends, maybe it’s a little bit more risky.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
It’s definitely easy to tell Mabel that she’s written a pretty bad song.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
We can be honest with each other.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Yes, definitely.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
And that’s okay.

John Murch:
Ivy, a lot of the narrative through this record seems to be from back when you were 14. Can you give us an idea of what was going on?

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Yeah, so a lot of the songs on the new album, Your Company, came out of quite a difficult time in our lives, both of our lives, and when my best friend passed away at the age of 14. And I think it took me a while to deal with that and process it, and song writing was my way of processing it. When writing a song, you express things that you might not express in conversation. And yeah, it’s definitely a lot easier to say everything you need to say, or express everything that you need to say. Yeah.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
I think the album as a whole has been a healing process, I guess, for that, and it’s also been a nice way to maybe share with other people some things that don’t get talked about that much, and people don’t often have conversations about grief, but death is something that we’re all going to eventually. And I think it’s a nice way to express that through music, because music can often have such a healing quality, I guess.

John Murch:
Did that give you a sense of urgency to do what you can now?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Tricky question. I haven’t really thought about that before.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
I think I definitely think about that, and it definitely makes you make the most of every day, when you’ve experienced something like that.

John Murch:
The first track on the album, does that give us a sense of locale, of what was happening at the time?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Yeah, well, that track, The Bridge, came from when Ivy and I went on a holiday just before Christmas, and it was a year after our friend had passed away. We’d gone on this walk across this bridge and came across some young people, who looked pretty sad, and there were flowers on the bridge and we found out that they’d had a party and one of their friends had jumped off this bridge for fun, and unfortunately didn’t make it. I guess, that stayed with Ivy and I for the rest of that day. And yeah, I think it was pretty poignant because of our friend. And we felt like we’d had a similar experience to these people, and that opened up this songwriting about grief, I guess.

John Murch:
Did that make you feel less lonely at that point, that the experience that you had the year previous was not isolated in some regard, and that there was an avenue for expression?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, it’s freeing to be able to tell a story that maybe isn’t your own story, but it’s someone else’s, it’s like, I guess, writing a song in third person is easier than maybe in first person, because it doesn’t feel like it’s directly you. You can kind of have a little bit of distance from it, and maybe that’s the case with that song. And that was one of the more early songs that we wrote about grief. As time went on, we’ve written more direct songs about grief, like-

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Such as, Her Quiet Footsteps. Yeah.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Yeah.

John Murch:
Has grief changed you?

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
It changes depending on the person, but I feel, overall, generally sadder. I feel like it made me mature a lot earlier, because I’d experienced something that was pretty full on and hard to deal with. So I had to actually deal with it.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Yeah. It’s something really difficult for anyone, let alone someone at the age of 14.

John Murch:
From there, the album moves into, Lies, which is a feature track that I believe, and correct me if I’m wrong, looks at things like social media.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
We, and a lot of people who use social media might sometimes feel a bit crap when they go through their feed and see a lot of people portraying their lives as perfect, I guess, and really beautiful and having an amazing time. That can often affect how you’re feeling, your self esteem. It’s something that we’ve struggled with, as teenagers growing up with social media, and I think a lot of people that we know. So yeah, that’s the basis around that.

John Murch:
That’s the curation of image and there’s people like Jessie Stephens of Mamma Mia, who believe there should be more grief that’s portrayed within those posts, but then obviously we’ll get the car crash element of that as well. How do you think social media could improve?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
That’s a tricky question. I don’t know. I think social media in its very nature is quite toxic. There are good things and bad things. People have used social media to connect with people that maybe they wouldn’t otherwise be able to connect with, because of distance, maybe, or finding a group of people that they resonate with. But I think it’s also created a culture of narcissism that brings out the worst in people that I’ve seen. I think it’s easy to get dragged into, especially when it’s such a trend.

John Murch:
As singer-songwriters who need to use social media to promote your album, your music, what you’re doing to, sometimes every couple of days, for some artists, it feels like, how do you find that balance?

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
It’s sometimes gets a bit too much, maybe.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
You’ve definitely got to have a balance and make sure that you’re pouring more effort into your creativity and your creating of art and music over the promotional sites.

John Murch:
Still along those lines, how about that of image and how you portray yourself on social media?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
I think our image is part of our band. We’ve created as part of our band and [crosstalk]. Yeah. And we’ve got, I guess it’s a bit artistic, you might call it, so it’s part of the art, and I think it’s good to make it part of the art, like all of our photographs for the album, they’re all quite pre-Raphaelite, and dark and moody, but also beautiful, which echoes the music on the album. So yeah, I think making it go with the art as much as possible, and have it serve the art is the most important thing. All you want to do is share your art with as many people as possible to, I guess, yeah. Share it with the world. I think that’s what it’s all about.

John Murch:
Let’s talk about film clip and that of, Lies. I got to share a quick story because above my pianola, there is a large poster of, Magic Dirt, signed by Adalita. You got to work with her on your film clip.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Yeah, well we first met Adalita, I think it was 2015, when we won a competition that Clare Bowditch was running for her Winter Secrets tour. She got people to cover her songs, and pick people to come and perform them at her tour. And we did a cover of one of her songs-

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
I Thought You were God.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
I Thought You were God. And she picked us to perform at the Corner Hotel with her. Adalita was supporting her at that show, and we met her then, and we thought she was awesome. And then later on, I think maybe a year or two later, I did a songwriting mentorship with her through The Push. Yeah. We just got along really well and became friends. And she also has a hobby of taking photos and doing films and she was like, “Why don’t we make a film clip together?” So we’ve made three film clips with her now. We work really well together creatively. So I think we have pretty similar ideas of what we want it to look like, and she really just gets it, I think.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Yeah. And she’s also really passionate about music and about working with us and our vision and everything. And it’s just, we’re all really into it, and that’s what makes it so great and fun.

John Murch:
Not speaking on her behalf. But with speaking with her, did the issue of grief come up?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
I think probably in the conceptualizing the video of, The Bridge, which is about grief and it’s a metaphorical take on the whole situation. We talked about how the story-

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Which could symbolise-

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Could symbolise what actually happens in the song, because we didn’t want, obviously, a true retelling of what happened. It was, I guess you could call it an allegorical or mythological telling of that.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
This is, The Bridge, film clip. I guess the idea behind that was that Ivy and I, in that film, are serving as like nymphs of the lake. And we filmed at this gorgeous lake, called Lake Elizabeth, out near Cundare. We were the weavers of fate, and maybe you could reference the Norns, there’s the three Norns in Norse mythology, who weave the fate of everyone on earth. And so that was a little bit of the idea behind that. We were leading these young people who were just walking through their lives, per se, to whatever their faith would go to.

John Murch:
Now, if we go to the album, Your Company, that bridge, so to speak, across the album, what kind of readings were you doing? Readings that were referenced whilst you were doing this record?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Oh, that’s a good question. I was doing literature around the time of some of the songs being written and I’d read a book called, Kitchen, by Banana Yoshimoto, who’s a young Japanese author, and it’s a book about grief, and love and loss. And we use that as a starting point for one of our songs, called, In the Gloaming, where we chose a page and took our favorite phrases from the book, because it’s quite poetic.

John Murch:
This is, The Middle of the Air, one, kind of Paul Kelly-esque.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Yeah. That’s another reference in there as well.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
When my best friend was quite ill, I was also in a Steiner class and we had all grown up together and we learnt this song, the Paul Kelly song, Meet Me in the Middle of the Air. We sang it all in harmony just before she died, while she was in the hospice. So yeah, it’s quite a special song, I think. Yeah. In the Gloaming, the song, In the Gloaming, on the album.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
That little passage Paul Kelly uses is actually, it’s originally a passage from the Bible. which is quite interesting. And I think it just said exactly what we wanted it to say for the song.

John Murch:
And as you said, that song also had a connection to a Japanese book, some writings within that?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Just two things that were in our minds when we were writing that song. A lot of these references that end up coming into the songs that we write are quite subconscious, except for maybe, Kitchen, which was us using that book as a launching pad for the song. But I often find after writing songs, I realise that all these things that are in my life have just come into the song, and I didn’t even intend for that to happen. And sometimes they bring up new meaning once you realize the outside influence of them.

John Murch:
Do you find happiness in this kind of songwriting environment?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
I think maybe release is a good word that I’d use. Songwriting is a great way to process things that would otherwise remain in your head.

John Murch:
What concerns me about the songwriting process is that you need to then do it again and again, live. Is there a sense of catharsis-ness about performing it again and again?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
I think after that point, once you have quite a bit of distance, I guess once the time lapses from when you first wrote the song, it becomes just a snapshot in time from your life, that you’re sharing with other people. For me, I guess, has less of a direct emotional effect on me. That being said, I often still feel quite sad performing some of the songs that we’ve written about our friend, but yeah, I think I would call it a healthy way of-

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Definitely, yeah.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Processing something like that. And I think part of that is maybe because our songs, while the content is quite heavy, we try to keep the songs in themselves quite light and beautiful and transform something that’s really tragic into something beautiful, which is maybe helpful in the healing process.

John Murch:
The friend would have had friends and family. What has their response been?

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Yeah, I think it’s just, well, this is just my point of view, but I think it may have shown them that there are multiple ways of dealing with grief, I guess.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Our friend’s mother actually really loves coming to our gigs and she’s one of-

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Our most loyal.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Most frequent followers of our music and our gigs, and comes to so many, and she loves hearing these songs. Maybe it’s because of that. Music is a nice way to heal from something like that.

John Murch:
And that’s how music, over the years, has played a vital role in healing as well. Let me ask the question, what’s the next single off this album?

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
No singles, because the album itself is out and people can listen to any song they like.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
We have talk of releasing videos for some of them.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Yeah.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Maybe, Good Luck on Your Own. This is the one time that we’ve done a co-write, and Cian Bennet is our friend who we met at a music camp that we’ve been going to for quite a number of years, as a family music camp. Cian is also a big fan of Sufijan Stevens, who is an American singer-songwriter who Ivy and I really love, and probably one of our main influences in terms of songwriting and music. And so we had this shared love of Sufijan Stevens, and we love playing those songs together and we thought, “Why don’t we get together and we’ll write a song together?” Because we’re both songwriters too, and Cian writes amazing songs. So we got together, he came over to our house, and we wrote this song in one afternoon in my bedroom and then recorded it, pretty much all of it, in that afternoon in my bedroom with our equipment, and then listened to it later, and we’re like, “Hey, this is a pretty good song. We could just put this on the album.”

John Murch:
Your Company. So is that about platonic relationships?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
I think it’s about all sorts of relationships and friendships. The song is sung about gratitude for the people that we find really important and special in our lives. When we wrote this song, we dedicated a verse to each different person that we really appreciate. That’s how it’s all put together. Partners or friends or lost friends. It’s a bit of a thank you song.

John Murch:
By having it as last on the album, that being the track, Your Company, is it in a way, saying, for all of the grief you’ve been through on this record, there are groups of people that can come together and make it all right?

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Yeah. I guess that is, it’s up to interpretation really.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
It’s a nice way to put it, though. Yeah, I like that.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Yeah. It also is a thank you for everyone who has listened to the album. The end of the song has a bridge in it, where we thank the audience in listening.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
It’s a thank you for listening and an appreciation for the company of others, I guess, ultimately. That’s what the album’s all about, appreciating someone’s company, whether it was the company that you once had, or the company that you have at the moment.

John Murch:
Our featured guest today on, radionotes, is, Charm of Finches. They are currently speaking to us, at time of record at the back of the Wheatsheaf Hotel, as part of an extensive tour for their record. So what has the on the road experience been like?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
I think it’s a lot of fun. We have a lot of long drives on tour, and it’s often us and our mother, who was also my manager. One of the pastimes that we have is singing in the car along to our favorite records. There’s a lot of long car drives that are good for listening to whole albums and getting to know songs, which is really, really fun.

John Murch:
What are some of those albums that are getting full listens in the car during those travels?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Well, I think, especially doing a lot of folk festivals around Australia, we get to know a lot of Australian artists. Some of our most favorite artists are Australian, so people like Dan Parsons, who’s a Melbourne singer-songwriter who is just an amazing songwriter, is such an inspiration for us. The Maes, who are another Melbourne sister duo.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
We also love Aldous Harding, who is actually New Zealand.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
She’s great.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
And of course, First Aid Kit, they were our original inspiration, I guess, or one of them.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
They’re Swedish sisters.

John Murch:
What is it about, First Aid Kit, that grabbed you back then?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
I think it was all, as a 14 year old who was writing songs and I discovered them and I realized that they were so young when they released their first album. I think they were 16, one of them was 16, or something like that. And I was like, “Wow, they were so young. And maybe that means I could do that too.” And it really made me realize that I could put my music out there, and also the sister thing, and the awesome harmonies. Ivy and I, at the beginning when we were 14 and 11, started busking down the road where our dad worked at this veggie shop, and we’d busk the whole catalog of, First Aid Kit.

John Murch:
Talk to us about the veggie shop experience.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Well, it was a good place to busk, because people would go in and they’d have their change, and as they’d walk out, they’d hear us and throw us their change, which was handy. And they always used to turn their music down when we were busking out the front, which was very nice. We were regulars down there. A good way to practice and get really good at just being confident in public, performing, good way to start music.

John Murch:
What are some of the best road stories that you can share with us?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
I think we’ve done a lot of composing songs and harmony parts in the car trips, especially with our mum, when we’re going to a folk festival and we go, “Hey, why don’t we get our mum up for one of the songs?” Because folk festivals, they love that. We’ll pick a song and we’ll work out all the harmonies in the car. Get a great chance to just listen to the song over and over again. Basically, just have a band practice in the car.

John Murch:
The theme of the current record is grief and loss. What will the theme of the next record be?

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
That is a good question.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Very good question. And one that I’m not sure I have the answer for. We’re still writing sad songs, aren’t we?

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
I feel like you can’t really get enough of using music as a way to process, and I don’t think it really ever goes away, that feeling of needing to deal with your grief or overcome it, so I think it’s a long, ongoing process. Yeah. There will probably be a couple more on the next album maybe, but we’ll see.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Who knows.

John Murch:
You’ve got a number of festivals coming up. Which ones are you looking forward to?

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Well, we’re going to Cygnet Folk Festival, that’s in January, so-

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
That’ll be heaps of fun. And then Nannup.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
No, first, before that, we’re going to, in between Nannup and Cygnet, we’re going to New Orleans for Folk Alliance International Conference, which will be amazing. So end of February, we’ll be at Nannup.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
In Western Australia. Yeah. Never been to Western Australia. So that’ll be fun.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
It’ll be amazing.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
An adventure.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
What else are you going to do in the US, in the States? Go to Disneyland?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
We’re going to, I guess, a fan. She has welcomed us to their retreat, I guess. It’s a songwriters’ retreat normally, but she’s let us stay there for a few days and she’s going to show us around. It’s on a farm in Louisiana, which will be really fun. It’s going to be a short stay this time-

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Ten days, yeah.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
But hopefully we’ll get over there some other time.

John Murch:
What do you want the listener to get from listening to your record?

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
The theme of the record is about processing loss and grief. It’s something that it’s nice to express through song. Hopefully listeners can relate to the songs that we’re singing in their own way, have access to feeling emotions that music evokes in a nice way.

John Murch:
Ivy and Mabel, thanks for your time.

Mabel Windred-Wornes:
Thank you.

Ivy Windred-Wornes:
Thanks for having us.